Saturday, October 3, 2009

Should We Abandon The American Flag?

Discussion Point - 10/3/09: Should true patriots abandon the American flag in favor of an alternative?

Left: A photo depicting the "Flag of the Second American Revolution." Click the photo to see its source.

A follow-up question would be: Does even asking the question make you an intolerable nut-job on the fringe of the resurgent center-right freedom movement in America? Or is it a perfectly fair one to ask?

This blogger raises the question, citing a recent article by Chuck Norris calling for an alternative flag to set true patriots apart from the rest of Americans who are running this country into the ground.

Please set aside for the moment, Mr. Norris' conception of an ideal American patriot who he sees as someone who "will serve God and the republic as the Founders did."

For our purposes, let's just say "Americans of all kinds who want to severely reduce and limit the size, role, and influence of government." Should such Americans fly a different flag?

Suggestions for alternatives include, the "Betsy Ross" flag with the 13 stars for the 13 original states, the Gadsden flag or First Navy Jack (which depict a snake and the motto: "Dont Tread On Me"), or the "Flag of the Second Revolution" -a modified "Betsy Ross" flag with a "II" to indicate a Second American Revolution.

In the last Discussion Point, "Do We Work Within The Two Party System?" commentators left some excellent thoughts. I felt however, that there was very little exchange going on. While saying contrary things, the commentators didn't respond enough to each others thoughts.

I'm not trying to egg on a fight here (and certainly expect discussion and debate to be charitable and kind), but please let me encourage you to offer rebuttals to another commentator's thesis when it contradicts yours. The whole point of this is to learn from and sharpen each other.

Here's some relevant music to listen to while you're writing and thinking:


Anonymous said...

A new flag should properly identify our struggle toward the ->Third<- war of independence. (The war of 1812 is known as the Second war of independence.)

Last winter I designed a flag that I've been carrying to events since the spring. It is based on historic symbols that reflect a respect for liberty.

If you provide an email address, I'll send a PDF with the image and explanation of the symbols - it might stimulate some discussion.

Raleigh, NC

Forgotten Liberty said...

In my opinion our flag still stands for freedom and liberty and should not be changed. What our flag stands for hasn't chaged, our government and some of our people have. I just don't think I could part with the red, white and blue. But maybe I'm old fashioned, because I still get teary eyed when I see the flag waiving while singing the national anthem.

Rational Nation USA said...

Forgotten Liberty, I agree with you totally.

Another question; Would having two national flags be divisive?

Another; Can a nation divided against itself stand?

Yes we have many problems and differences. However we must work within the system to change it. We have the power if only we would use it.

A proper and Patriotic start would be to vote all the bastard out of office in 2010 and 2012 and start with a completely fresh cingress and executive branches.

Perhaps then things will change.I just can't abide with a 2'nd flag, not yet anyway.

W. E. Messamore said...

Good arguments all! Hans, given the arguments of the two commentators following you, why do you think it's worthwhile to design an alternative flag? PS: excellent historical observation, and I would love to see your design. My email is wemessamore@gmail.

Ken said...

This seems more like debate over symbols, not substance. Isn't it more important to be convincing people that we have significantly strayed from Constitutional rights and liberties and that this is a problem?

Also, adopting a new symbol may only further remove the young "liberty movement" in America from mainstream politics. Hopefully if a new symbol becomes widespread it will draw attention to our ideals in a positive way...but I'll hold my breath until then.

Anonymous said...

I have no issue with the comments posted here regarding love of country or love of our flag.

My motivation for design of an alternative was to create something out of traditional elements, visually similar to the US flag, that would stimulate folks to ask questions and talk about what is happening in our nation.

Over the last century, we as a people have been willing to accept "progressive" tyranny and Keynsian economics from our governors while we pretend to still believe in Libery and free markets.

For me, an alternative flag is a "battle standard" to rally attention until such time as we restore our Republic. At that time our traditional US Flag will once again suffice.

Raleigh, NC

Al Maurer said...

I agree with Hans' last post--and especially that last paragraph.

Elephants & donkeys have been the symbols the out-of-power party can rally around. Today is different. It is not about party, it is about reclaiming the values that made America great.

So Hans is right: it's about choosing a battle flag--or flags--to symbolize the fight to reclaim our country.

W. E. Messamore said...

Wow. Took a look at that flag design, Hans. It's really something! Have you published this anywhere?

Anonymous said...

I've shared the PDF freely as an explanation for folks who inquired about the 3'x5' printed flag flying in the breeze. (The "base" 9-stripe is one of the pre Revolutionary War flags of the Sons of Liberty.)

This design was inspired by the historical fiction novels "Sparrowhawk" by Edward Cline. Mr Cline has a very unique perspective on Liberty and our Republic. He publishes regularly at and should be on your reading list (if not already).

You may post the PDF on your site for folks who might be interested in making one of their own. The design elements are all in the public domain. I do not plan commercial production but wish to retain rights to the composite intellectual property.

I'll email a photo of me and my Lady Liberty flag marching down Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC, on 9/12/09.

Best Regards

Raleigh, NC

Anonymous said...

CORRECTION: Edward Cline writes at:

Sorry for the "brain-fart".

Raleigh, NC

pennystockmafia said...

I think the new flag is sparking more controversy and curiosity to the movement more than the typical American Flag would. Our current flag has been hijacked by corporate elites and the new flag shows we stand apart from them. Of course the American flag will always be OUR flag. The new one is symbolic for the movement and I support it!

W. E. Messamore said...

My thoughts exactly.