Thursday, February 18, 2010

Joe Stack Plane Crash in Austin, Texas

THL Condemns:

Earlier today, Joseph Andrew Stack, a disgruntled, anti-government software engineer, crashed a small plane into the Echelon Building in Austin, Texas, which housed U.S. Federal tax employees in its IRS offices.

(Sources: FoxNews via: Memeorandum and CNN via: Memeorandum)


As the Editor-in-Chief of The Humble Libertarian, I unequivocally and without qualification, condemn this brutal, senseless, and stupid act of violence. As a libertarian, I am incensed that Joe Stack took it upon himself to take innocent lives in the name of less government spending and lower taxes.

Liberty is Peaceful

You can bet that socialists and welfare statists will aggressively associate libertarianism with this violent outburst for years to come in order to smear our movement and our message. But I write today so that no one can doubt it- that I fiercely condemn Joe Stack's plane bombing of the Echelon Building in Austin, Texas, and that Joe Stack is no libertarian. Libertarianism emphasizes non-coercion, non-aggression, and peaceful coexistence among people. Its exemplars include luminaries like the Mahatma Gandhi, Henry David Thoreau, and Leo Tolstoy.

Joe Stack committed his violent crime just a few short hours after I published these words at The Humble Libertarian: "We need to be good representatives of libertarianism. Ultimately people are concerned about whether a libertarian society will be a good society, and we must show them it will be a good society by being good people." Joe Stack doesn't speak for me or the millions of other Americans who correctly support more fiscal responsibility in Washington. We are good people, law-abiding citizens, and peace-loving activists.

Guilty by association?

I would also caution the welfare statists and social democrats on the "left" who are already gleefully attributing this criminal act to the "tea baggers" and the libertarian "right" in "left"-leaning blogs and discussion forums all over the Internet. To its credit, a DailyKos blogger correctly writes:

"Obviously Stack was not a mentally healthy person, and he was embittered at capitalism, including crony capitalism, and health insurance companies and the government. Reading larger political motives into this action would be preliminary, until more information emerges about whether he actually has been involved in any political movement like the teabaggers. But it should inject a bit of caution into the anti-government flame-throwers on the right."

But it's unfortunate that many of the commentators on that post didn't read it too carefully before commenting. I would also add to the author's statement above that even if Joe Stack did attend tea party protests, that doesn't make the Tea Parties or libertarians a terrorist group any more than it would make the YMCA a terrorist group if we found out that Joe Stack had a gym membership at one. But the smears will likely continue regardless.

More Information on the Plane Crash in Austin Texas

Below is the full text of the Austin, Texas plane crash criminal- Joe Stack's Internet note (or "Stack Manifesto"), which he first published to his website "Embedded Art" at EmbeddedArt.com (which has now been taken down). Hat tip to The Smoking Gun via: Memeorandum and The Statesman via: Memeorandum.


FULL TEXT OF "STACK MANIFESTO" BEGINS HERE

If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer… and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

· “another person” is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

· “taxpayer” is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

· “individual”, “employee”, or “worker” is you.

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to XXXX XXXX, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, XXXX knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

FULL TEXT OF "STACK MANIFESTO" ENDS HERE

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

hey...

here's my liberal question... as far as i can tell. he pretty much was espousing a great deal of the things that i've heard plenty of people who call themselves teaparty followers state. so why are you running from the guy now.

is it because he flew the plane in the building.. or are you going to actually separate yourself from his words as well?

when you start screaming that states should leave the US, and that the president is illegally in office.. you're goiing to get some of this crap..

deal with it...

or maybe we can come together, and realize that simply because we have a difference, doesn't mean that the other guy is satanic!

peace...

Anonymous said...

sometimes there needs to be blood.

W. E. Messamore said...

My liberal friend, thanks so much for commenting. I agree with you whole-heartedly. In fact, I not only believe that our differences don't make the other guy "the antichrist" or something, I also believe that our differences don't run as deep as most of us think they do.

Most Americans want the same things and see the same flaws in our system. I hope very much to bring people together and help them see that a lot of solutions to our problems aren't ideological or partisan.

As for what I believe- I'm not a birther (in fact I ridiculed "birthers" here: http://bit.ly/b7fNJ8) and I doubt that most Tea Partiers (which is a primarily anti-tax and anti-spending movement)are.

I just think that Federal spending is out-of-control (yes, due in large part to the Bush Administrationg) and that Washington needs to stop taking your money to give to wealthy corporate interests. Don't you agree with all that?

Just because this guy also agrees with those sentences above, like most Americans would, that does not make anyone who protests our tax-and-spend government a terrorist, or their ideas inherently belligerent, hostile, or wrong.

I'm not running from anyone because I have nothing to run from. I am condemning a criminal act of violence and I am making clear that any association between him and peaceful anti-tax activists is a false one (on par with that YMCA example I gave) and a smear.

Second anonymous commenter- troll around somewhere else please.

Dave said...

Thank you Wes for taking this on immediately and head on. While I find myself agreeing with some of the things he said. I totally disagree and I am sickened by the way he went about it. I don't know why people in the media and the government refuse to call this man a terrorist. If he was in any onther country he would be called a terrorist or suicide bomber. He planned and followed through with attacking a government building and killed and maimed innocent persons and his own Wife and Daughter. What was even more maddening was when they reported on NPR that government officials, the FBI, homeland security were trying to determine if this was a deliberate act. Doh! he left a suicide note, he left a manifesto, he torched his house with his wife and daughter in it, then he deliberlately flew a plane in a dive bomb into the IRS building.

To the techno geeks out there is there a way to pull up cached versions of his website embeddedart.com ? So we can see what led him to this?

TAO said...

Wes, why shouldn't "socialists and welfare statists" blame Libertarians for this act? Lets be honest, you and your compatriots blame everything on an "ism" all day long.

I think troubled man's letter spelled it out pretty well and I think the anger and frustration he felt was well stated.

Its the one fundamental issue Libertarians and the Randian Romantics have to face: Capitalism today does not play by the same rules and has the same values that Ayn Rand promoted in her writings.

Can a Libertarian society be a good society comprised of good people?

Can corporations be good citizens?

You want to believe that somehow government causes all the evil in the world, and I would agree that its batting average isn't all that hot...but to believe that freeing up capitalism and corporations will all of sudden make them 'good' is naive at best.

You cannot free the individual by limiting government...and until we deal with the economic issues addressed in this suicide note then libertarian ideals are just utopian.

Remember, society is a long term proposition while corporations are all about quarterly earnings...what is rational in the long term is not neccessarily rational for the short term.

Anonymous said...

Full support of Joe Stack. Bravo.

Dave said...

Funny how the people who approve of Mr. Stack's behavior have to hide behind anonymous.

Hugh Betcha said...

It is a sad day in this country when we must turn to violence as a means to an end. It is now time for REAL change in America

Libertarian Advocate said...

Just thinking how odd it is that one man can willfully fail to report $34K in income and ultimately be appointed Secretary of the Treasury while another man apparently innocently fails to report $12.7K of his spouse's income thereby incurring a Treasury Department reaction that in turn causes him to lose his mind and take his own and at least one other's life.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Anonymous #2: Sometimes there MUST be blood. Call me a troll if you must.

The problem here is that some people believe change can only be effected peacefully. Others believe only in violent change. I would flal in between.
The problem with condemning the man's actions while accepting his words is that we come across like a toothless sheepdog.
The Behemoth of government will ignore us if it can.
"If you don't get out of our wallets, we WILL write a STRONGLY-WORDED letter of Protest!" "Ehh... round-file..."

Do you fear a de-fanged cobra? A dog with no teeth? A wolf in a cage? even a quadripalegic with a gun? The gun is impotent to act on its own, and the man unable to pull the trigger even if he's willing.

That is how this government (the American system) views the taxpayers now. While I am not a FAN of mindless violence, I understand the viewpoint, and the frustration, and the need to DO SOMETHING even when it is the wrong thing.
As for government employees, #1, they're NOT innocent, #2, they're a dime a dozen, #3, they're usually useless, and #4, who gives a flying rodent's hindquarters? At least in OK there was a daycare, which should've been a deterrent. but a LOT of people are gettign VERY angry, and when we are denied any hope, we will turn violent. I may not have much beef with the government overall, but I have a private situation that's pushing me the same way, and I GET the despair and how it becomes impossible to think without the despair affecting every decision and view. At that point, it is necessary to involve others, if in no other way - share the pain. Make a protest. Soemtimes it is physical. This world is dysfunctional enough, we don't need to make special rules for the elites and another set for the proles, with an occasional prole destroyed just as an example.

That's terrorism, too.

Anonymous said...

To Dave @ February 18, 2010 11:59 PM:
Dave said...
Funny how the people who approve of Mr. Stack's behavior have to hide behind anonymous.

I don't approve, but let us not be stupid: approving or not, publishing a full name, or anything like a handle, which can be traced, is bad. Not a conspiracy theory thing, but if something happens, you become one of the "usual suspects".
I had to post my previous comment @ "February 19, 2010 1:29 PM" as Anonymous because it wouldn't accept my email address as a url, even when I removed the "@" and made it a ".at."

Search YouTube for "never talk to the police", I believe it was. rhjunior.com, go to blog, track back, you can get a confirmation a few months back. You don't need to INTEND to lie, nor do you need to intentionally omit anything, etc, etc, etc. The act of doing so immediately makes you suspect, even if you didn't do anything. If you recall a detail and revise your story, well, why didn't you tell su that ni the first place? And so on...

So, I didn't sign in because I couldn't, but many people know how much information is recorded (For example, IP address can be used to track to a physyical location, which then has a MAC address, which gets a computer, which brings us to user logs that include who I am and any and all other sites I've been to, which means there is a case for SOMETHING right there - for instance, an ad for White Power, NAMBLA, "Uncle Fester" books, etc. And how do we prove it's been doctored after the fact? REALLY hard if that gets done, you'd need to get backups of the logs, and run security checks, and hope they had someone stupid not change the log information and file archives and versioning...)

As I've noted elsewhere, I think he was stupid for how he did it. Especially with a plane... If you'll do that, at least use a BIG plane. Otherwise, better to stay alive and orchestrate a long-term campaign of guerilla warfare. Make them bleed, make them chase you, make even a fully successful fight for them be too costly to maintain, make it a pyrrhic victory.
govenrment's forgotten a basic maxim: your freedom ends where my nose begins. Step to me, get knocked back. Escalate at your own risk.
People like Joe Stack feel they've been punched, and escalated to, and they need to strike back.

And the government is so effing immense that even if the building had ceased to be, the government will not notice.
THAT is what makes it a waste.

Anonymous said...

Libertarianism is a cancer on society.

W. E. Messamore said...

To the anonymous commentator who accepts the violent murder of random government bureaucrats and destruction of private property as a legitimate means to spread our ideas- it isn't moral, it's not effective, it won't work, and it's not necessary. Do some reading up on Gandhi. Watch that film from the 1980s.

To the "libertarianism = cancer" commentator- I will never aggress against you. Peace, dude.

Anonymous said...

Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men generally, under such a government as this, think that they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the evil. But it is the fault of the government itself that the remedy is worse than the evil. It makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens to be on the alert to point out its faults, and do better than it would have them? Why does it always crucify Christ, and excommunicate Copernicus (2) and Luther,(3) and pronounce Washington and Franklin rebels?

Anonymous said...

Dear Messamore, you are wrong. Reality does not always work like on TV. In a sense, bureaucrats are not innocent when they choose to be the agents of unjust laws.

Joe Stack's actions seem spiteful rather than heroic. Yet we should hesitate to condemn all violence against a state; few would condemn the American Revolution or the French Resistance.

"Terrorism" is a means, and I imagine that in some circumstances it can be justified as the only effective means of resisting your opponent. It is a complicated world which we inhabit, and if we insist on simple answers, we may pass by the truth...

W. E. Messamore said...

My Goodness! Ever stop and think that a civilian bureaucrat might not be willfully evil or deliberately ignorant, but simply has what Ayn Rand would call "an innocent error of knowledge?" That perhaps if you talked to one of them like a human being instead of bombing them like a vicious miscreant, that you might change their mind?

What happened to the power of ideas? The unmatched power of ideas to change people's minds? If libertarian ideas are right, then we must simply repeat them. What happened to the power of love? Where is your love? If it's not all about the love, then I quit. I'm out.

And please do not compare this to the American War for Independence. George Washington's army didn't attack unarmed civilian bureaucrats without warning. They attacked military targets and military personnel. And if I am wrong and you can dig up some incident where civilians were targeted by Americans in that war, then I condemn the incident and I condemn its perpetrators.

Terrorism- if defined as the deliberate targeting of civilians- is NEVER justifiable under any circumstances. No libertarian who believes in our right to LIFE, liberty, and property, and to be free from any coercion thereof, must condemn the deliberate targeting of civilians in war.

If you want to argue otherwise, you had better start from a different set of premises than the libertarian one.

Anonymous said...

The Stack that flipped Joe?, see pdf. attachment.
or see pdf doc. Ramillies (62kb) in link below as
emailed from November 2009 to January 2010.


http://www.4shared.com/u/zvzvpsq/7665beb5/foursgiant.html

Anonymous said...

I don't think this guy was directly part of the Tea Parties, it seems to me that he was generically anti-government, neither left nor right. However, I do think that a lot of the rhetoric from the tea parties may have influenced him.

W. E. Messamore said...

Did you read his screed? I think a lot of rhetoric from Marx influenced him.

Anonymous said...

Hi. Interesting post. I got here from your article at the CS Monitor.

I see that a few people in your comments are questioning the assertion that libertarianism isn't implicated in this plane crash/attack. It's an interesting issue, but I'm not sure it's fruitful; it seems to me that it depends on how you define "libertarianism." By the same token, I would take issue with your statement about "socialists and welfare statists," since that would seem to be the type of gross generalization that, if I understand correctly, you're asking people not to make about you.

W. E. Messamore said...

Thanks for commenting, Anon... sorry if my writing was unclear. I did not mean to imply that categorically, if you are a socialist or welfare statist that you will definitely use Stack's act of violence to discredit libertarians. I was simply stating that it's something that welfare statists and socialists will do. Many already had when I wrote this post, and continued to do so after I had published it... so I was right :)

Though when folks gave Stack's screed a closer reading (like I did the following day) and found that he was actually quite Marxist, the story pretty quickly fell off of everyone's radar and we haven't heard much about it since. So my prediction was wrong in that sense. When I made it, I didn't have as complete an understanding of Stack's grievances and how he stated them as I did after reading them very closely.

Post a Comment